:( American Beheading In Iraq

[tubebuoy]

"Now, as someone who hobbies in psychology I wonder why Berg didn't seem to put up much of a fight? I'm not saying in ANYway that it was staged, I just wonder about the full circumstances with the situation. Like did he know what was going to happen, and was somehow okay with it? "

Oh yes! I'm SURE he was a willing participant in his own murder! Wouldn't YOU be? Have you given ANY thought to the fact he may have thought he was partaking in a propaganda film? Did you hear him SCREAM as they started sawing his head off? Did you notice his hands and feet were bound? Maybe you need a new hobby?

"Actually, from what I have heard, US soldiers have commited rapes and murders of Iraqi prisoners, so we shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses. "

Once again another Liberal misses the point. He seems to think that if we just send love and peace from the astral plane the Islamic Acid Space people will leave us alone. Wave your freak flag high bro! These people want to KILL YOU because you are non a believer!

The American people have expressed thier disgust at the things that have gone on in the 'prison scandal' Where are the Iraqi Islamic leaders who express disgust at the Nick Berg execution?

Huh?

And you really think we are the same as them?

Well put this in your John Kerry hat and smoke it!

Even FREAKIN Hizbollah the palestinian terrorist group who blow up women and children have distanced themselves from the Berg incident...

Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group condemned Wednesday the beheading of an American hostage by Iraqi militants as an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam.
"Hizbollah condemns this horrible act that has done very great harm to Islam and Muslims by this group that claims affiliation to the religion of mercy, compassion and humane principles," the Shi'ite Muslim group said in a statement.

SORCE: http://au.news.yahoo.com/040512/15/p/oyu8.html


Grow up!

Tubeout!

[Zone-MR]

@ Tubebuoy: Excellent posts, and I fully agree with everything you've said.

Quote:

Originally posted by "Kelewyn"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("Kelewyn")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>First I am against censorship, but I'm not so sure I think any links to that video should be posted, at LEAST without some warning. I saw it awhile ago, but as someone who has almost seen it all and studies psychology it didn't affect me.. THAT much.[/b]

As you suggested I have appended a small warning below the link (although I think it's pretty redundant as people who download a beheading video are usually aware that it won't be pleasant).
<!--QuoteBegin-"wase4711"
The whole affair is sickening, and now, courtesy of our wonderful "information age", 10-15 year old kids get to see a beheading on the Internet..[/quote]
I'm not sure if that's the way you implied it, but surely it's a good thing, isn't it? Our society should see what we, as a species, are capable of, rather than being sheilded with any truth which does not reinforce the stereotype that real war is as fun as a video game. How can we formulate any opinion if we are shielded from the details, and brought up with the illlusion that the world is a perfect place?

Quote:

There isn't much hope for the future of mankind, is there.....

You are talking as if war was something new. You are talking as though the murder of innocent civilians during a war is anything new. For as long as human-kind has existed war has been choronic. Until recently, the murder of civilians during wars was considered to be normal. What we have at the moment is nothing compared to the horrors millions of people were subjected in WWII alone.

I say that at present, we are more civilised than ever. I say that not only do we have hope, we have a lot more hope than we have ever had. The fact that due to advancments in technology the entire population gets to see wars for what they are, with all the unpleasant details helps a lot. Those who cannot remember history are condemned to repeat it.

[Zone-MR]

It's nothing new. There were strong indications that the images were fake, a day after the Mirror originally released them. So much didn't add up. The vehicle in which the photos were taken wasn't even used in Iraq.

To be honest I don't find the 'news' surprising. Even if a few US troops DO abuse Iraqi people I doubt they would be stupid enough to allow their picture to be taken while they are doing it. It's not like they would expect support from US citizens.

[wase4711]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zone-MR+May 13 2004, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zone-MR @ May 13 2004, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-"wase4711"
The whole affair is sickening, and now, courtesy of our wonderful "information age", 10-15 year old kids get to see a beheading on the Internet..

I'm not sure if that's the way you implied it, but surely it's a good thing, isn't it? Our society should see what we, as a species, are capable of, rather than being sheilded with any truth which does not reinforce the stereotype that real war is as fun as a video game. How can we formulate any opinion if we are shielded from the details, and brought up with the illlusion that the world is a perfect place?

You are talking as if war was something new. You are talking as though the murder of innocent civilians during a war is anything new. For as long as human-kind has existed war has been choronic. Until recently, the murder of civilians during wars was considered to be normal. What we have at the moment is nothing compared to the horrors millions of people were subjected in WWII alone.

[/b][/quote]
No, Zone, my only point is the more we, as a society, bring this to the public eye, the more de-sensitised we get to this terrrible stuff..
We do NOT need to be bombarded with this type of disgusting, visual reminder of how sickening war and the associated atrocities that occur are..
I don't believe that people need to see be-heading to know how sickening it is..

Do we need to see a young girl raped to know how vile it is?
Do we need to see people getting their brains blown out to know how disgusting it is?

BTW, have ANY of you ever killed ANYTHING or witnessed ANYONE getting killed IN PERSON?

I know there are some Veterans here, so YOU KNOW what I am talking about..
I will never forget what I saw and did in Vietnam, but I don't really need to see any more war atrocities to remind me of how PHUCKED war and the related horror is...

[Kelewyn]

Quote:

Originally posted by tubebuoy@May 13 2004, 12:29 AM
"Now, as someone who hobbies in psychology I wonder why Berg didn't seem to put up much of a fight? I'm not saying in ANYway that it was staged, I just wonder about the full circumstances with the situation. Like did he know what was going to happen, and was somehow okay with it? "

Oh yes! I'm SURE he was a willing participant in his own murder! Wouldn't YOU be? Have you given ANY thought to the fact he may have thought he was partaking in a propaganda film? Did you hear him SCREAM as they started sawing his head off? Did you notice his hands and feet were bound? Maybe you need a new hobby?

Grow up!

Tubeout!

No reason to be rude.

I've seen people who didn't want a needle put in their arm put up more of a fight, breaking out of leather restraints; or people who didn't want a stomach levage. I never said anything about that video was fake. Sadly it is very real. I just wonder if he was briefed about what was going to happen to him. Then again it all happened so fast he really never had a chance to fight much did he? It was just a thought anyway so I commented. My understanding is that to do so is allowed.

From the screams it doesn't seem that he passed out before death either, which is something I would have thought would happen (if nothing else after so much blood loss).

We're all upset about this, and it's a touchy subject... but maybe it's best not to take it "out" on others based on their thoughts?

[Kelewyn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zone-MR+May 13 2004, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zone-MR @ May 13 2004, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> @ Tubebuoy: Excellent posts, and I fully agree with everything you've said.

Quote:

Originally posted by "Kelewyn"@
First I am against censorship, but I'm not so sure I think any links to that video should be posted, at LEAST without some warning. I saw it awhile ago, but as someone who has almost seen it all and studies psychology it didn't affect me.. THAT much.

As you suggested I have appended a small warning below the link (although I think it's pretty redundant as people who download a beheading video are usually aware that it won't be pleasant).
<!--QuoteBegin-"wase4711"
The whole affair is sickening, and now, courtesy of our wonderful "information age", 10-15 year old kids get to see a beheading on the Internet..

I'm not sure if that's the way you implied it, but surely it's a good thing, isn't it? Our society should see what we, as a species, are capable of, rather than being sheilded with any truth which does not reinforce the stereotype that real war is as fun as a video game. How can we formulate any opinion if we are shielded from the details, and brought up with the illlusion that the world is a perfect place?

You are talking as if war was something new. You are talking as though the murder of innocent civilians during a war is anything new. For as long as human-kind has existed war has been choronic. Until recently, the murder of civilians during wars was considered to be normal. What we have at the moment is nothing compared to the horrors millions of people were subjected in WWII alone.

I say that at present, we are more civilised than ever. I say that not only do we have hope, we have a lot more hope than we have ever had. The fact that due to advancments in technology the entire population gets to see wars for what they are, with all the unpleasant details helps a lot. Those who cannot remember history are condemned to repeat it. [/b][/quote]
As far as the warning, every little bit helps.

As far as it being a good thing for 10-15 year olds I'm not so sure. Yes it's important to have knowledge about things in life. To hear about it isn't enough? I'm a vegetarian because I gained knowledge.... I won't get into that.

The reason I'm so concerned is viewing that can be traumatic. Most commonly the first natural thought is that it's fake. That fades fast. Some even might find a need to see more sick videos. Some might become numb to such things. Not me, it still haunts me.

[Zone-MR]

Quote:

Originally posted by 4711+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4711)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>We do NOT need to be bombarded with this type of disgusting, visual reminder of how sickening war and the associated atrocities that occur are..[/b]

I fully agree that we do not need to be 'bombarded' with unpleasant visual reminders. However I don't think we ARE being bombarded by them. I haven't seen any graphic images in the mainstream media.

I don't think anyone has been made to see the video, without knowing fine well what it is. The fact that the "information age" permits people to see the video *out of their own free will*, without being "bombarded with it", is something we can not, and should not try to stop. Unless you want to get into the whole censorship debate with the usual arguments (ie, "Who is to judge what is too disgusting for us to see?", "how do we stop the circulation of information for the peoples own good?", etc).

As for the video itself? We've all seen much worse images in '12' rated films. The only difference is that this is real. The emotional effect is caused by the subconscious knowledge that what you are seeing is not fiction.

<!--QuoteBegin-Kelewyn
I've seen people who didn't want a needle put in their arm put up more of a fight, breaking out of leather restraints; or people who didn't want a stomach levage.[/quote]
He was outnumbered six to one. One of his captives held a weapon. He had probably already tried putting up a fight on numerous occassions, and the result was probably several sharp and painful blows. In that situation I think you have no choice but to accept that your attempt to fight is futile, and will only result in more suffering.

[italiano]

I am pleased that at least we are all discussing these issues, and yes, they do rub a raw nerve, at least it proves that many of us do have feelings and humanity within our souls...

Clearly those who use themselves as human bombs and cut throats in the name of an invisible God are not capable of even the slightest discussion !!

How can you reason with people who are willing to blow themselves to kingdom come.... just so they will be rewarded with:


"God will reward us with 500 big eyed virgins, who will serve our every needs forever" !!
How can you reason with that sort of mentality snd fanatasism?

[Kelewyn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zone-MR+May 13 2004, 07:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zone-MR @ May 13 2004, 07:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kelewyn
I've seen people who didn't want a needle put in their arm put up more of a fight, breaking out of leather restraints; or people who didn't want a stomach levage.

He was outnumbered six to one. One of his captives held a weapon. He had probably already tried putting up a fight on numerous occassions, and the result was probably several sharp and painful blows. In that situation I think you have no choice but to accept that your attempt to fight is futile, and will only result in more suffering. [/b][/quote]
The only reason I even ask is at the hospital I've had people where we've needed the whole Code team to restrain. I'm sure you're right though, again I was just being "vocal" with some thoughts I had.

[unicorn]

from tubebuoys post:

Quote:

"Actually, from what I have heard, US soldiers have commited rapes and murders of Iraqi prisoners, so we shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses. "

Once again another Liberal misses the point. He seems to think that if we just send love and peace from the astral plane the Islamic Acid Space people will leave us alone. Wave your freak flag high bro! These people want to KILL YOU because you are non a believer!

Meaning what?
It's easy to put words together but do you mind explain what the meaning is here? I understand it as the prisoners are held prisoners as they want to kill everybody everywhere not muslim and as they want to do all that killing it is okey to rape and humiliate them. Maybe I'm getting it wrong. As you are asking people to grow up you might help me out a little there?