Help Protect The Pledge Of Allegaince

[Jarod888]

I think i will go sign it. Two things come to mind when i read this, the first being the quote by Voltaire, "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." and the second being the song "I Pledge Allegiance" -- By Red Skelton who's words can be found here: http://home.att.net/~poofcatt/july.html

This debate will go on for eternity because everyone has differnent views, the best solution is to allow a child to choose for him self, and for his decision to not be influenced by anyone. A child's mind will change many times in his or her life, and with those changes will come differences in opinion, and quite possible changes in religious beliefs; for who are we to tell someone what, or who, or how they can or can not believe, that is UnAmerican. This country was built on freedom of expression and freedom of speech, where would we be without it..if we didnot enjoy these freedoms, would we all have met? Would we have an open discussion like this? Would the female members here have the right to be here? Would females have the right to vote? Where would we be?

[redkitty]

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The pledge has been this way a very long time. Changing it would be a very hard thing for people to accept.

Let's see.... the Pledge was written in 1892 and in 1954 Congress stuck in the "under God". That's 62 years.

From 1954 to 2003... mmm, let me take my socks off... uh huh, that's another 49 years.

I don't know, am I missing something here?

A Short History of the Pledge of Allegiance: http://www.ifx.net/~wjohnson/pledge.htm

[kamikazee]

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Let's see.... the Pledge was written in 1892 and in 1954 Congress stuck in the "under God". That's 62 years.

From 1954 to 2003... mmm, let me take my socks off... uh huh, that's another 49 years.

I don't know, am I missing something here?

It's been there all my life and I was born in 60

Yes you are, but you won't admit it. it was changed legally by our elected representatives, by a majority vote and signed by our president who, guess what, was also elected. where were the dissents then? They (the judges) don't want it reviewed by anyone thats why they keep putting a stay on their own decision, they know that if a vote ever were taken they would lose and lose big even in california.

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Anyway, why aren't you guys calling for a Constitutional amendment which allows people not born in the US to become President.

Because of one very good reason, what if something were to go wrong in the country the president were from, how would he be expected to act or deal with it?

[hamslammer]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention war. I have gladly signed it and sent the link to all of my friends urging them to sign it too.

[MinnesotaKid]

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Originally posted by Jarod888@Mar 6 2003, 12:52 PM
This debate will go on for eternity because everyone has differnent views, the best solution is to allow a child to choose for him self, and for his decision to not be influenced by anyone. A child's mind will change many times in his or her life, and with those changes will come differences in opinion, and quite possible changes in religious beliefs; for who are we to tell someone what, or who, or how they can or can not believe, that is UnAmerican. This country was built on freedom of expression and freedom of speech, where would we be without it..if we didnot enjoy these freedoms, would we all have met? Would we have an open discussion like this? Would the female members here have the right to be here? Would females have the right to vote? Where would we be?

Very well said.

[Jarod888]

thanks!!

[Darkwolven]

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Originally posted by KingCobra@Mar 5 2003, 12:31 PM
Where does it stop? Look at the USA coins, bills, court rooms. The quote "In GOD We Trust" is everywhere. Why not cancel Christmas as a national holiday, after all it's the birth of Jesus. I think things should be left the way they are and our government should worry about other things.

I do believe in GOD and I say that NOT trying to offend anyone. People are free to believe and do what they want. There is currently no way that anyone can prove to another person that GOD is real. It's very simple and no amount of fighting will prove either way.

Oh for God sakes.

Christmas is NOT the birth of Jesus. The church says it is because they wanted to sanctify a secular holiday as being "Holy". Anybody that knows their Bible stuff will tell you Jesus was NOT born on Christmas.

As for the "In God we Trust"? I do believe in a higher power, BUT whose right is it that we demand they be there? It has no reason for being on the money. There is no seperation of church and state because we left it slide for so long BUT there is SUPPOSED to be seperation of church and state. So is saying that there is no real seperation of church and state a reasonable excuse to demand that everybody pray in school or force athiests or jews to claim something that they don't believe in or to force it on money? Because YOU believe in it? HOW SELFISH! That's like forcing a non-smoker to sit in the smoking section of a crowded resturant because YOU deem it the right and correct thing!!

I SAY NOT! It's wrong! You're forcing a belief system on somebody and that is what is wrong with Christianity today AND in the past. "If somebody doesn't believe in Christ, force it on them!" That is so WRONG especially for a country that belives in F R E E D O M. I say, if you want to do it, fine, but don't force everybody to do it. God has NOTHING to do with the political or financial position of the US and if it does, then why is the US in such a deficit??

PS: Don't plan on preaching to me because I am an ex-"born again". I've "been there done that". I know all the lines and I feel much better with myself in the beliefs I have come to by searching my feelings. Above is what I have come to with much soul searching. Take it or leave it, but it's my opinion. Does it make me unpatriotic?

[JacKDynne]

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the smoking section of a crowded resturant

Do they still have those in the U.S.?

/JD

[Darkwolven]

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Originally posted by JacKDynne@Mar 13 2003, 12:39 PM

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the smoking section of a crowded resturant

Do they still have those in the U.S.?

/JD

I don't know.

Sephiroth said:

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I agree with what KingCobra says.  

This is all my own opinion, so take it as that.  Things have been the way they are now for many many years, it should be left as it is.  

As Redkitty said. It was written in AFTER. "Under God" was a rewrite!

[kamikazee]

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BUT there is SUPPOSED to be seperation of church and state

No there is not period, the government will not mandate an official religion period, god as used is generic.
Find where this is written in our constitution or bill of rights, I believe I pasted it in one of my posts, hell read the federalist papers and see how much has really changed and if you want to see how radical it could have been. Do the research. It may have been an add-in but it was done by the laws that govern us. Lets not forget we in part exist because our fore fathers wanted to get away from religious persecution, and no matter how you feel it all comes down to the majority rules.

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saying that there is no real seperation of church and state a reasonable excuse to demand that everybody pray in school or force athiests or jews to claim something that they don't believe in or to force it on money? Because YOU believe in it? HOW SELFISH! That's like forcing a non-smoker to sit in the smoking section of a crowded resturant because YOU deem it the right and correct thing!!

No one tells anyone to pray in schools they take a moment of silence for reflection, no one forces anyone to believe in anything, You are the selfish one that you would deny someone who wants to pray in school to pray, you can't be still or quiet for a moment to reflect on something important to you, so everyone can't, so 1 person out of 30 doesn't want to say the pledge, thats fine they can stand in silence and contemplate while the other 29 say the pledge and you call me selfish because I allow the 29 to say the pledge, I don't think you even know what the word means. Be glad you can even voice your opinion about your own government, others don't have that right.