Help Protect The Pledge Of Allegaince

[KingCobra]

Where does it stop? Look at the USA coins, bills, court rooms. The quote "In GOD We Trust" is everywhere. Why not cancel Christmas as a national holiday, after all it's the birth of Jesus. I think things should be left the way they are and our government should worry about other things.

I do believe in GOD and I say that NOT trying to offend anyone. People are free to believe and do what they want. There is currently no way that anyone can prove to another person that GOD is real. It's very simple and no amount of fighting will prove either way.

[war59312]

Well first of all the Pledge of Allegiance has never been manatory and never will be. If a shcool does that then please sue by all means. Public anyways.

Anyways I believe the Pledge should stay as it is.

And my problem is not about school children saying it. Everything else like when you die and everything.

I just saw on fox news that some guy got fired because he said the god part an a funeral. Even after the family requested. See how stupid it has become.

I am sorry but 3/4 of the world believe in a "god". Look it up. It is not ment has the cristion god. Just any god in general. And who said you have to say the bledge.

Thats what I want to know. Please compaling about having to say it. Yet I see no prove that u were forced to ever say the pledge. Shit we dont even say it in college. Never. Not once.

Just like praying. I think you should be able to pray anytime u want at school as long as its private. Meaning not in class or anything like that.

Once again its all about money. Dont kid yourself if u think its any different. Everything is about money. Shit if i were to run for presdient there is no way in hell i would win. WHy? Not rich. Did not got to fucking big ass school like harvard. Dont know any in government except my uncle.

America thinks it so free then why the hell do i feel incaged every damn day. I tell u why its because everything evolvoes around money. Shit did u know that a governement offical can not be charged with a mistermean if he/she is on their way to a meating. And if a coy stops them they can be fired right then and there. Dont believe me look it up.

See how stupid that is. Or u could just pay them off. Thats just one example I am sure u can think of a million more.

THink about this. Somone is charged with a crime. 13 people or maybe only the judge sentece him/her to death. 13 people out of 6 billion say that u die. How fucked up is that? God did not say u die. Shit 13 people. See how said this is. Sometimes i dont know how those people can live with themseleves. Who the faq gave them that right? Um Governement. Damn thats fucked up.

Yea i like live in here and enjoying our freedoms but damn that is fucked up big time. Not to meantion that guy was incent. How about that. 13 people just murdered another human being. I could never have anything to do with it.

Oh and what happens if its your turn to be one of those 13 and u say no. Guess what u are fined and more than likly jail. Damn thats fucked up!!!

See america is not as great as some people say it is. Really makes me sick. THats why and many other reasons why people hate us. Shit I am living here i should know. Some people just need to open there eyes.

Enough for me.

[MinnesotaKid]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomboy@Mar 5 2003, 11:05 AM
They may feel guilty because they they have rejected God, but I consider that a good (and natural) thing for them to feel.

I have no guilt about my beliefs. And I feel mighty "good and natural". Why would I feel guilty about choosing not to believe in a god??? Guilty because I don't always believe what people tell me to believe? Nah, I don't think so.

As long as you don't restrict my choice NOT to believe in a god or try to force me to abide by your religious practices, then we will get along just fine

It's about mutual respect, IMHO, not one side being morally superior to the other and putting up walls to hide behind. Some people can look at and RESPECT both sides of an issue. I could fling out negative statements about how I feel all religions are based on myths and how religion is for weak-minded people and how religious hatred and bigotry has caused many wars and millions of deaths throughout history (ie. WWII), but that get's the discussion nowhere. Mutual respect. Athiests have just as many rights as god-fearing people do. At least in the USA they do

By the way, I do actually feel the original lawsuit that brought this Pledge issue to the courts was totally unnecessary. Just don't say "Under God" if it bothers you. This ain't Nazi Germany. No one is forcing you to say it.

Sometimes athiests get bugs stuck up there ass, too! Why can't we just all get along!

Nuf said for me on this polarizing topic.
Peace Out,
MNKid

P.S. To war59312 - If someone murdered someone close to me, you're damn right I'd want to death penalty. Give them society's justice juuuust in case there ain't no god. Call it an insurance policy! My opinion, of course.

[belthazor]

This is a pretty heated topic as it is, so hopefully I'm not throwing fuel into the fire by saying this:

My religious convictions have absolutely nothing to do with my political stance. But I do feel that each individual needs to decide for themselves whether they want to choose to mix the two.

You can be devout in your religious affiliation, and be an awful human being. Case in point...Bin Laden.

You can fight to the death for your country, and still be of any religious denomination, or choose not to believe at all.

The pledge has been this way a very long time. Changing it would be a very hard thing for people to accept.

But remember, the country is run by and the rules are made by politicians.

This is one very big reason for people to excersize their right to vote.

[Tomboy]

OK,

One last note for our unbelieving board members from the Bible:

2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world (i.e. satan) hath blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Regarding mutual respect for unbelievers, the best I can accord you is tolerance as demanded by our constitution. However, you need not expect me to enjoy or endorse your deliberate decision to reject the gospel and as a consequence go to hell after this life. What a tragedy and a waste!

Tomboy

[tubebuoy]

Just for the record, The 'Pledge' was writen by a socialist and did NOT contaian "under God". "Under God" was added to the pledge by an act of congress.

Purists would insist "under God" be replaced by the original "under Duck".

Until this time, I will not sign the document.

}---

[Sephiroth]

Quote:

Originally posted by KingCobra@Mar 5 2003, 11:31 AM
Where does it stop? Look at the USA coins, bills, court rooms. The quote "In GOD We Trust" is everywhere. *Why not cancel Christmas as a national holiday, after all it's the birth of Jesus. *I think things should be left the way they are and our government should worry about other things.

I do believe in GOD and I say that NOT trying to offend anyone. *People are free to believe and do what they want. *There is currently no way that anyone can prove to another person that GOD is real. *It's very simple and no amount of fighting will prove either way.

I agree with what KingCobra says.

This is all my own opinion, so take it as that. Things have been the way they are now for many many years, it should be left as it is. People DO have the right to believe in any god or religion they want. Hell, if someone wanted to worship an elephant as their god, then so be it, it's their decision to make, not mine, not anybody else's, theirs and their's alone.

And if they don't want to believe in a God at all, that's fine too. In my opinion, we have no definitive way to prove that a god, any god, be it the christian god, Allah, the Greek / Roman / Norse pantheon of gods, Buddah, or any other god you can possibly think of, exists. I think things should be left the way that they are, but if you are uncomfortable saying "God" in the pledge, substitute Allah, Zeus, Buddah, your elephant, (not trying to poke fun at anything, just giving a way exaggerated example of how I feel) or whatever god you worship in it's place. Like I said, it's your right to worship whatever you want to worship. After all, wasn't freedom of religion one of the major reason's the colonists founded the United States in the first place?

Oh, and Tomboy, what exactly do you mean "Unbeleving board members"? I know for fact not everyone here practices Christianity, and I know there's at least several people here who are atheists, so please try to remember that, unless I interpreted what you meant the wrong way

[tubebuoy]

" but if you are uncomfortable saying "God" in the pledge, substitute Allah, Zeus, Buddah, your elephant, (not trying to poke fun at anything, just giving a way exaggerated example of how I feel) or whatever god you worship in it's place"

The point is, the ORIGINAL pledge didn't ask ANYONE to pay homage to anything other than the Nation State. "God" (three headed goat) was ADDED on a POLITICAL whim! Asking that "God" be removed from the pledge so as it can be returned to it's orginal intention (a pledge to the State alone) seams a reasonable request. No?

}---:?

[kamikazee]

Quote:

The point is, the ORIGINAL pledge didn't ask ANYONE to pay homage to anything other than the Nation State. "God" (three headed goat) was ADDED on a POLITICAL whim! Asking that "God" be removed from the pledge so as it can be returned to it's orginal intention (a pledge to the State alone) seams a reasonable request. No?

No, not when it is not in the mojority's interest, remember this is a panel of judges determining this for us, they are not voted for they are appointed the do not believe in a majority and they do not believe in the people, they are self centered and egotistical, they have their jobs for life, why should they care. Patriotism has to be taught and I believe this is where it starts. The term god as used is generic and the pledge is not mandatory it never has been, the instructions for those that felt uncomfortable, were a spend a moment in contemplation nothing wrong with that. As tomboy stated earlier the constitution does not state anything about the seperation of Church and state it only states that the gov't will not makes laws restricting Americans to any certain religion

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Our Gov't is not a Democracy it is a Republic, and because of this in a land where majority is supposed to rule we have judges that have seen to it that the minority will always rule. Lets not go with the presidential election about a mojority either, because all of you political professors know the reason the president is not decided by popular vote but by the electoral college system, for those of you that don't, the reason the electoral college is used is this, if it we used the popular vote then it would take only 5 states to elect the president and the other 45 states would have no say. Judges should be elected and not appointed, judges are not there to press their beliefs on us, they are not to use their personal feelings to enforce laws either, if they can't seperate their personal feelings from their job then they are in the wrong place.

The term under god was added by our elected officials, whether we like it or not, they were added properly and legally, and now you would have unelected yahoos who answer to no one make our decisions? Does it not bother anyone that the atheist that started this lied to accomplish this? Not only did he lie but he used a (his) child to do it, and his own child does not object to the pledge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59652,00.html I will post my proof to what I say or at least try to, but here is my proof, I know alot of others don't require it.

[M31]

As a non-American I don't have any hang ups about misled beliefs that any society is or has been free.

And I suppose as a socialist I am now I suppose a sworn enemy of Tubeboy.

Anyway, why aren't you guys calling for a Constitutional amendment which allows people not born in the US to become President.

Come on say it after me "Arnold for President"