Please convince me!

[Firefox]

What about the Kurds

Code:

http://www.gendercide.org/case_anfal.html

Saddam gassed his own people.

Aftermath of Iraqi chemical attack on Halabji, March 1988.











How many died?

According to HRW/ME, "at least fifty thousand rural Kurds ... died in Anfal alone, and very possibly the real figure was twice that number ... All told, the total number of Kurds killed over the decade since the Barzani men were taken from their homes is well into six figures." "On the basis of extensive interviews in Kurdistan and perusal of extant Iraqi documents, Shoresh Resoul, a meticulous Kurdish researcher ... conservatively estimated that 'between 60,000 and 110,000' died during [al-]Majid's Kurdish mandate," i.e., beginning shortly before Anfal and ending shortly afterwards. (Randal, After Such Knowledge ..., p. 214.) Other Kurdish estimates are even higher. "When Kurdish leaders met with Iraqi government officials in the wake of the spring 1991 uprising, they raised the question of the Anfal dead and mentioned a figure of 182,000 -- a rough extrapolation based on the number of destroyed villages. Ali Hassan al-Majid reportedly jumped to his feet in a rage when the discussion took this turn. 'What is this exaggerated figure of 182,000?' he is said to have asked. 'It couldn't have been more than 100,000' -- as if this somehow mitigated the catastrophe that he and his subordinates had visited on the Iraqi Kurds." (Iraq's Crime of Genocide, pp. 14, 230.)

It is impossible to state with certainty what proportion of the victims of Anfal were adult men and adolescent boys. The most detailed investigation, conducted by HRW/ME, tabulated the number of "disappeared" from the various stages of Anfal, based on field interviews with some 350 survivors. The organization gathered the names of 1,255 men, 184 women, and 359 children -- "only a fraction of the numbers lost during Anfal." This would suggest that some 87 percent of the adults "disappeared," all of whom were apparently executed, were male; and that about 70 percent of all those who "disappeared" were "battle-age" males. (See Iraq's Crime of Genocide, pp. 266-68.) These calculations do not, however, include the large number of Kurdish civilians killed indiscriminately in chemical attacks and other generalized assaults.

Most recently, Kenneth Roth, director of Human Rights Watch, has referred to "100,000 Kurdish men and boys machine-gunned to death during the 1988 Anfal genocide." (Roth, "Show Trials Are Not the Solution to Saddam's Heinous Reign", The Globe and Mail, 18 July 2003.)

[Firefox]

So yes we have a Imperfect Goverment system in the USA, but all in all I am Proud to be an American. DW please show me all the (countries that we have liberated to add to our empire) Did we annex , Germany, Japan, or even the Phillippines. It is amazing that we overlook the Oil for Food scandal in the UN, But wait Halliburton, Halliburton, that is a bigger scandal than the Billions in the Food for Oil scandal.




YET all this is a waste of time my dear dopeweasel because a man convinced against his will is of the same oppion still. You can find anything you want to hear on the Net.

So with that I will end my little exercise in futilty because you don't want to be convinced you just want to spin or rant (much as myself). I can't overcome the indoctrination or the brainwashing that either of us have recived from our respective Icons and bastions of our version of the truth. Beside We are not the ultimate Judge.

[JacKDynne]

@dopeweasel

I found my souces by googling basic ingredients of nerve and mustard gas from your earlier post.

/JD

[wase4711]

Lets not forget who helped Sadaam gain the power he eventually mis-used..the UNITED STATES was once a big time supporter of this maniac;
Once he started acting on his own, we decided we no longer supported him..

Talk about being 2- faced...

Don't get me wrong, I am glad he is out of power, and he deserves to hang by his testicles for the atrocities he commited against women and children..
But, even though I supported the war initially, its obvious to me now, that the longer we stay there, the more the Muslim world will unite in their hatred for America and the Western world in general..I mean, if there was NO OIL in them there hills, does anyone with even 1/2 of an IQ actually think we would be there?

thats what aggravates the hell out of me; the way we choose who we "care" to support in the world..If you don't have something that benefiits the USA, we don't really care about your dictatorships, your genocides, and the atrocities comitted against your own people...Somalia, Bosnia, we all know the long long list of countries with similarly murderous leaders, that we took our sweet time in helping, or didn't even bother with at all...

Its easy to understand why so many around the world no longer trust the USA...

[DopeWeasel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacKDynne

@dopeweasel

I found my souces by googling basic ingredients of nerve and mustard gas from your earlier post.

/JD

I'm sorry, but I still can't find any other uses for methyl phosphonyl difluoride then it's use in chemical warfare... if I've been lied to by the media and Amnesty International I'd like to know.

[JacKDynne]

Then you just were not looking hard enough

http://www.state.gov/t/np/rls/fs/2001/3525.htm

It's a dual use chemical.

Quote:

I mean, if there was NO OIL in them there hills, does anyone with even 1/2 of an IQ actually think we would be there?

Probably not wasie, but that would be due to the fact that they would not have the cash-ola to fund their terrorist agendas. Let me pose a question to everyone based on a few assertions - 1. That Sadam was a smart guy (he gained and held power for an awful long time) and 2. Sadam knew that there was no way he could win an outright war against the US (as evidenced by the Gulf War). Now if you were Sadam, what would be your best option of retribution against the United States, outright war or acts of subterfuge? If I was a betting man you can be sure I would pick the latter.

Quote:

why the planes were allowed to hit their targets

I'm sorry and you can call me naive but I have trouble believing that GW or any of our presidents would allow the deaths of innocent American men, women and children if he could have prevented it. That's just absurd.

As for all the examples cited that's great, but in addition to reading may I suggest some critical thinking as well; the human mind in its infinite capacity is known to break the GIGO factor when applied

And it goes without saying: no offense to all

/JD

[Nemesis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wase4711

Lets not forget who helped Sadaam gain the power he eventually mis-used..the UNITED STATES was once a big time supporter of this maniac;
Once he started acting on his own, we decided we no longer supported him..

I don't think that's all that big a deal. Sure we supported him...as well as Bin Laden. But people are people. They do their own things and act their own way.

If a child who is brought up in a good home with great parents decides to become a mass-murderer, do you expect the parents to back his efforts? Conversely, if a child grows up in a bad home with bad parents, are the parents' to blame?

I think not. Personal accountability is the key and it is lacking in many places. You don't need religion to know what is right or wrong. I could care less if the President of the United States goes to worship EVERY DAY. Just because a person goes to church services does not make him or her a religious person. We, as humans--individuals, are imperfect.