ok.., can anybody tell me if I'm completely overlooking something obvious here?

I have a dsl modem, a router, and two PCs. They're setup as follows:

DSL Modem:

IP = 192.168.1.1
Subnet = 255.255.255.0

Router:

IP = 192.168.1.2
Subnet = 255.255.255.0

PC 1:

IP = 192.168.1.3
Subnet = 255.255.255.0

PC 2:

IP = 192.168.1.4
Subnet = 255.255.255.0

I'm trying to troubleshoot my dsl connection to see why it's going so slow, but, here's where I ran into my problem. If my router is in the middle between my modem and my machines, then I can see the modem and connect fine. But, if I take the router out of the equation, and just run a straight CAT5 cable between the nic in my machine and the ethernet port on the dsl modem, I can't connect, ping it, do anything, and I can't figure out why. I've tried reseting the modem to factory defaults, and tried giving it an IP and Subnet of 10.0.0.138 / 255.0.0.0 , and my pc an ip / subnet of 10.0.0.1 / 255.0.0.0, but neither helped. On one hand, I was thinking my router was the reason my connection was going so damned slow, but now I'm starting to wonder if my modem is being cranky and doesn't want to work right now. Any ideas? if I'm overlooking something obvious I'm going to smack myself, lol

I had the same problem, Your ISP may not be picking up the mac address of your NIC fast enough. They (adelphia) said they were using cisco routers and that sometimes it could take upto 3 hours to reconfigure everything. Adelphia not only looks for the Modem mac ID they also look for a NIC ID.

Before I put in my router, I would set the modem to 10.0.0.138 and the PC to 10.0.0.137. After I got the router (Linksys BEFSR41) the modem's IP was left as it was, the router was 192.168.1.1 and the PCs (2) started at 192.168.1.100 (with a 255.255.255.0 subnet). You might try to change the modem back to it's original addr.

Hope this helps.

Aren't your ISP giving you an IP using a DHCP? Then your router has taken care of that and connect your internal LAN with the cable modem. Putting the PC in direct connection with the modem make them belong to different networks.

Had to think a bit, so am re-writing this post.

My ADSL requires my mac address to connect, as most do. Routers have mac addresses as well. So when you connect directly to the modem from your machine, you are using the nics address instead of the routers.

Therefore you should not be able to connect.

Question though. You mention you are changing the modem address. How do you change a modem address or are you referring to your router?

Quote:

Originally posted by -trminatr@Jun 14 2003, 10:40 AM Had to think a bit, so am re-writing this post. My ADSL requires my mac address to connect, as most do.  Routers have mac addresses as well.  So when you connect directly to the modem from your machine, you are using the nics address instead of the routers. Therefore you should not be able to connect. Question though.  You mention you are changing the modem address.  How do you change a modem address or are you referring to your router?

you can change the ip addy and subnet that the modem is assigned in it's config pages

i thought about the mac address thing too, but, if that was the case, then explain this:

before i got the router, it was connected straight to my machine, then shared over a second nic in my pc over ICS or Wingate, to PC2, and when it was connected that way, i didn't have this problem

also, if it was allowing access to only the mac address of my router, then, why when i take the router out of the equation and push the button on the modem and reset it to factory defaults, can i still not do anything with it?

Quote:

Originally posted by -mikeh420@Jun 13 2003, 11:41 PM Before I put in my router, I would set the modem to 10.0.0.138 and the PC to 10.0.0.137. After I got the router (Linksys BEFSR41) the modem's IP was left as it was, the router was 192.168.1.1 and the PCs (2) started at 192.168.1.100 (with a 255.255.255.0 subnet). You might try to change the modem back to it's original addr. Hope this helps.

what modem do you have, an Alcatel speed touch home? that's what it sounds like, same one that I have

<!--QuoteBegin--.unicorn@Jun 14 2003, 09:54 AM
Aren't your ISP giving you an IP using a DHCP? Then your router has taken care of that and connect your internal LAN with the cable modem. Putting the PC in direct connection with the modem make them belong to different networks.[/quote]

not DHCP, just a dial up PPPOE connection

What IP is set as the gateway and DNS servers on your main PC?

If its 192.168.1.2 you might want to kick yourself very hard in the nuts. If its something else, tell me what it is, or is is set to get it via DHCP?

the gateway is either setup to 192.168.1.2, when the router is attached, or 192.168.1.1 / 10.0.0.138, the modem, when it's not

the dns servers are two of my isp's dns servers hard coded, not getting anything from dhcp

/me waits to get off work so i can go home and try to fix this again, any more ideas?

Why do you have your modem IP set to a local IP? Wouldn't you want this to be something available to everyone, so that you could connect? Am I making sense? Try kicking yourself in the nuts like Zone-MR mentioned. ;) :D

it has to have a local ip too......... it, or my router, only gets a public ip from my isp when i'm connected

What I tried to say is that your modem gets anIP from your ISP. Thsi is the public IP. Then your router has an IP towards your LAN and the WAN port linked to the modem is listening to the public IP... A gateway...
So, when connecting the PC directly to the modem the PC has to accept an IP from your ISPs DHCP-server. That's why you can't connect,

IMHO

Then the MAC-addy might be involved too, or it might not, I don't know your ISP.

And, don't kick yourself in the nuts... Leave that for Zone-MR and billybob and the other wise guys. To ordinary people it hurts.

just curious... maybe this are obvious quiz, but consider myself smacked toghether with you :horse: :drunk: :D
i'm assuming that u tryed it with the NIC interface of the modem connected to a NIC in yr machine :rolleyes:
did you used the original CAT5 cable u used to? (could be a crossed link one... ;) )
also, does yr modem as a USB interface also? you could try it to see if u can connect with it :)
yr hole prob can be the modem NIC interface in it's last days of life??... :huh:
one of the first symptoms of a dying NIC can be slow tranfer speed... ;) it as happened to me before :blink:
if it was to be the Mac addr, then a reset to the modem would definitly have solved it ;)
just a thought, hope it helps :)

i thought about it being a bad ethernet cable, i'm going to take an extra home from work when i get off in a few hours and try it, and yeah, the one being used is the same one i've used for ages

"i'm assuming that u tryed it with the NIC interface of the modem connected to a NIC in yr machine ", yep :(, doesn't work

i hope it' s not a dying nic, the one i'm using right now is integrated into my motherboard, which is about 3 months old, lol, it's an msi board with an nforce2 chipset, so an nvidia nic... maybe i should try my PCI SMC nic tonight and see what happens?

Speaking of the CAT5 cable, try switching the one that goes to your modem with a new one. This has happened to me before, and I spent days trying to figure it out, and it turned out to just be the cable. Even if the cable works on other things, it could still be broken...really bad grammar there, but you get the point.

@.unicorn
Thanks for letting everyone know about me and kicking myself in the nuts :D :kicking:

@nuxx
THanks for the smileys, really made my day ;)

There is a wide difference between ISP's. My ISP in Canada uses the MAC id of the connecting device. To conect, we must realease the IP address before disconecting the router, connect the modem to the pc's NIC, then do ipconfig renew. If we mess it up, ther is no recourse but to telephone the ISP and ask them to release and renew. You gotta go through the same routine in the inverse--or, clone the NIC MAC address in the router before connecting it to the modem.

as far as i know, my isp Bellsouth never has used the mac address for anything, what i was wondering though was that if my modem was ignoring my nic's mac id and expecting the router's, but a reset to defaults should have cleared that

another thing that i might not have made clear is, it's not a problem with connecting to my isp, it's just the modem's built in config pages i can't even connect to, which of course i can't connect over pppoe with xp's dialer either, because my machine doesn't realize the modem is there in the first place

Ah, ok, dsl. I had dsl from Bell Canada for a while, but forget the details now.

Bell Canada did not use MAC, but rather a small "dial up" program that contained the user name and password. It acted like a mini dial up, but of course simply called up the connection on the dsl line, wich, if I recall correctly timed out automatically if not used and had to be reconnected when the equipment was rebooted.

But one thing, From time to time IE6 refuses to access my LinkSys router setup pages. Even putting in the router's IP in "trusted sites" doesn't work right now on 2 of my WinXP pc's. But, Mozilla always works. Netscape and Phoenix also work, but I've settled on Mozilla for getting around the recalictrant IE 6. Never been able to figure out why.

f***ing hell, well, it isn't fixed the way i want it to be fixed, but it's fixed

it's a problem with my onboard nic, there's a really long thread at MSI's forums i just found about it here:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/e_serv...043f3eff8ce7a6

aparently a lot of older 10baseT hubs, switches, routers, and modems and this nic don't work together, and my modem is on the list of verified non working until MSI releases an updated bios or driver to fix it :( *goes to install a PCI nic now*

thanks for the help guys

Yep, got the Alcatel. First one died after 11 months, but got a new one under warranty and it's 2 yrs old. Also, the Linksys router takes care of DHCP, so I don't have to specify IP addr on my 2 PCs, the first one on grabs 192.168.1.100, the second gets *.*.*.101, etc. The only problem(?), if I need to configure the DSL modem (which I haven't yet), I need to connect directly from the NIC to the modem. Otherwise, it's very reliable.

to bad shephirod :(
cant u try to install a chipset driver for the NIC only, instead of the MSI's Mobo drivers?? :Jumpy: might do the trick maybe :rolleyes: it probably is a realtek or something ;)
maybe a firmware upgrade to the modem could solve it :sailor:
that is if yr willing to go for all the trouble, instead of just sticking a PCI :hammer: in the freakinn thing, hehe :cheers:

Sephiroth, took a look at the thread. Bummer. At least it's a small consolation that it's "them" and not "you". :)

I had no idea dsl providers use MAC, since Bell Canada uses just the user/password system using a connection manager program. They permitted (at least last year) 2 different pc's to be connecected (using conection sharing).

Re NICS, My Nr. 2 PC is an MSI Ultra KT-4 (6590)and (fortunately???) didn't come with an on board NIC. But, I've had trouble in the past with a NIC that failed. I got a new one that worked. Later I assembled another pc and moved the failed NIC to it and it is still there working on my Nr. 1 pc (Asus A7V8X mobo) Go figure. This stuff is enough to drive a guy to drink sometimes. have a beer on me! :)

i tried :( lol, some people solved their problem by manually entering the mac address for the onboard nic in the bios that's on a sticker on the motherboard, so i pulled the board out of my case, wrote it down, tried it, flashed the bios, and used nvidia's reference drivers instead of the ones MSI have, and none of it worked, piece of ****, lol, so i put my SMC nic in and it worked perfectly fine, bastards

<!--QuoteBegin--rikytik@Jun 15 2003, 04:40 AM
Sephiroth, took a look at the thread.&nbsp; Bummer.&nbsp; At least it's a small consolation that it's "them" and not "you".&nbsp; :)

I had no idea dsl providers use MAC, since Bell Canada uses just the user/password system using a connection manager program.&nbsp; They permitted (at least last year) 2 different pc's to be connecected (using conection sharing).

Re NICS, My Nr. 2 PC is an MSI Ultra KT-4 (6590)and (fortunately???) didn't come with an on board NIC.&nbsp; But, I've had trouble in the past with a NIC that failed.&nbsp; I got a new one that worked.&nbsp; Later I assembled another pc and moved the failed NIC to it and it is still there working on my Nr. 1 pc (Asus A7V8X mobo)&nbsp; Go figure.&nbsp; This stuff is enough to drive a guy to drink sometimes.&nbsp; have a beer on me!&nbsp; :)[/quote]

i know, that's what me and DoG were talking about last night, we really both hate computers, we can fix anybody's computer except for our own, anybody can bring me their computer and give me a few hours and i'll have it stable as hell, but when it comes to my own it has more bugs than half the software MS has wrote in the past 10 years combined :( lolol

though it isn't much of a better solution, there is one way i've found around that, if your router has an uplink port on it, plug the modem into your uplink port instead of the wan port, and you can access it, not much of a better solution, but at least you still have LAN access while you're configuring the modem

Weird...

Isn't a router used to route IP packets between different IP subnets???? That should mean your router has at least TWO ip address (or else ir won't be a router :)) and the two IP addresses can NOT be in the same IP subnet range. The LAN side of your router is 192.168.1.x with mean the WAN side connecting to your router can not (I repeat can NOT) be 182.168.1.x, and neighter can the IP of your ADSL modem.

Does this makes any sense?

Haller me on MSN if you don't get it to work. Maybe, just maybe... :)

If I got it right, what he's done is used the LAN switch in the router to connect the modem to the pc's, thus bypassing the router itself.

Ah, My fault. That explains it...

No !
This don't make any sense.....
as 192.168.1.x and 182.168.1.x
are 2 different networks, and a router is "routing" traffic between networks :P

/Peace Cactus, I guess it was a typho B)