I come from a military family and I hate it when I see arrogant chickenhawk politicians and contractors (like Bush, Cheney and their pals) getting rich while benefits for serving personnel and veterans are eroded.

Republicans slash veterans' health benefits

_http://www.vaiw.org/vet/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid= 59&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

_http://capwiz.com/dav/issues/alert/?alertid=1691076&type=CU

Republicans plan to cut education funds for military dependents

_http://signonsandiego.com/news/education/20030216-9999_1m16fedcuts.html

The Disabled American Veterans page I posted above has links to send an email or letter, if you want do something that will actually help the people in uniform.

Under the Clinton administration, HUGE cuts were made to military budgets, which affected many military families. It's an issue BOTH parties have to answer to.

I just knew somebody would try to defend this by dragging in Clinton. I was never a Clinton fan, but in fact, most of the cuts that Clinton was blamed for were initiated by Dick Cheney when he was Secretary of Defense under George Bush I (in 1990 Cheney proposed a 25% reduction in the military, removing 442,000 men and women from the rolls over five years).

Please though, let's not go there in this thread. It isn't about the size of the budgets anyway, it's about how the money is spent and who profits from it. Military personnel, like other working people, are being asked to pay for wealthy CEOs' tax cuts.

The Disabled American Veterans page I posted above has links to send an email or letter, if you want do something that will actually help the people in uniform.

How can you post this garbage and expect not to get feedback?

I would think coming from a military family you could appreciate what Bush is trying to do. I work on a NAVAL base and under the Clinton admin, we had to reduce by 40% and it almost killed our town. Now we are growing again, ever so slowly. But, now I feel secure in that money is being spent on defending our country through research and development.

Seems to me that you go looking for trouble, Oh great defender of slanted truth :rolleyes:

I have put a new sign up in the redkittycat garden:



Don't the daffodils look lovely today? :huh:

/JD

Seems some of you are graduates of the Limbaugh Finishing School -- where they teach you that an empty-headed sneer is the best way to refute anything that upsets you. Sorry, I'm not impressed, but thanks for keeping the thread visible... maybe you'll do some good in spite of yourselves.

Have you looked at the links? When you're done pissing all over me, maybe you should head on over and tell the vets who put up those pages what you think of the "slanted garbage" they're posting. I'm sure they would like to hear from you.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe for the same reason I decided not to post anything negative in war59312's thread about his uncle shipping out. Didn't seem like the right place for a pissing contest.

Pucker up buttercup :)

Come here and give me a great big kiss already :D

/JD

Both the articles you posted are VERY Biased! Verterans against the war are obviously going to slant any stories about Bush. While they claim the House may be cutting money from a PROPPOSED budget, this does not mean a reduction in current benefits, in fact, spending might INCREASE! How? If spending is now 'X' and Bush want's to raise it 1 million but the house cuts his desire by $500,000 it's an INCREASE, No? (numbers are for example only)

And about the Schools, The money in question seems to go to the school district NOT the children of vets. If this is a 'true' cut, it should be offset by 'the largest increase in history for education' that Bush and Kennedy pushed through congress over a year ago.


I don't have time to research all of these numbers but I've seen Democrats call a 'reduction in the rate of growth' a 'cut' way too many times to believe the links you posted on blind faith. Now, i'm not saying your a democrat but. if you think they are better for defence then by all means vote for them. Or perhaps you think the 'Green' party is a better choice :D

}---:)

tubebuoy -- It's called a point of view, every decent source has one. If you were paying attention, you'd have noticed that I often post sources I don't agree with, but forget me. The DAV are going to be concerned about benefit cuts, but I haven't noticed that they are especially likely to be either Democrats or anti-Bush. Also, if you cared to, you could easily find the same information from other sources, but I think you are living in a house on De Nile.

Of course the money goes to the school districts. That's the whole point. I give you credit for being civil, but it's too obvious that you didn't bother to read the articles. Instead you are mostly constructing your own notion of what they might have said and then dismissing that. Straw men. On the other hand, we all do some sloppy thinking sometimes, so perhaps I'm unjust in believing that you are too mired in your own biases to even look at what is actually happening. Not trying to be offensive, but that's what it looks like from here.

In any event, it's obvious that nobody on these boards gives a flying f_ about this stuff. I'll go talk to someone who cares. After listening to all the flag waving super-patriots on this forum, I have to say I'm disappointed but not at all surprised.

I'm fed up anyway -- Smug plus Ignorant literally turns my stomach and there's too much of it hereabouts. Now I know what to avoid. Good thing you bunch know more about software than you do about politics.

I guess all the response to your input here (and in other threads) proves that people do care. It's just that most of them don't seem to agree with you. I for one do care, and I wanna thank you for some interesting reads over the lasts weeks. After watching CNN for a week it was nice to have some other point of views. It seems some people don't wanna read certain things, and maybe that was what JD's sign was all about :P

True, completely true. But then again, we are a place to discuss computer related stuff, not politics. I know you have been around here long enough to know that politics and betas can't be mixed. This has always sturred thing up around here, seldom in a possitive way.


No let's switch back to our regular program: Anyone got a copy of RTM yet? :D

Still looking... :) :) :)

Now, where's that REALLY big smilie?

:)

/JD

"I give you credit for being civil, but it's too obvious that you didn't bother to read the articles."

If I didn't read the articles, how was I able to post my opinions about the bias involved? There was nothing in this title "Republicans plan to cut education funds for military dependents" to indicate that funds were being 'cut' to the school districts. It sounds like funds are being "cut" to "military dependents" does it not? This in fact was not the case.

ALL advocacy groups form for one reason, MONEY! They all want FREE MONEY! Wether it's donations or government hand outs they want money for their causes.

Why else would they form? To sit around and watch each other scratch their butts? And I'm not saying their causes aren't just or nobel, only that it's unwise to assume their "facts and figures"
are accurate or unbiased.

I'm beginning to think you're a socialist in sympathetic vets clothing. If anything is obvious around here it's that you want 'The Rich' to let you decide what sould be done with THEIR money.

"I give you credit for being civil, but it's too obvious that you didn't bother to read the articles."

Sorry M8! If you wanna dance with the tube, you'll have to do better than this.

}---:)

For the record, I am not a vet. But I did grow up as an Air Force brat and pretty much all the other males in my family were either career or short-timers, so I do get irate when the government goes back on its promises or arbitrarily changes the deal, as it has done in the past. Yes, it's personal. The fact that the flag-wavers are doing it just adds insult to injury.

Thanks, Cactus. I don't mind an honest disagreement you know, it's that recycled PR bushwa I can't stomach. So, I'm not the only one who thought JD's sign was a laff riot?

I don't know what my politics would have to do with this, tubebuoy, but you may have a point since the military is the most socialist segment of our society. With large corporations a close second and "rich" people in general right behind. Yeah, I do tend to think the rest of us should be let in on the deal...

By the way, you managed a twofer there -- Name-Calling plus Transfer in the same sentence. I think you've been hanging out with the wrong crowd, you're picking up bad habits. (Propaganda Analysis _http://carmen.artsci.washington.edu/propaganda/intro.htm)


All right, tube, I did jump down your throat a bit. Apologies. But that old "reduction in the rate of growth" stuff? Lame. And fundamentally dishonest. I don't think I will dance with you today, though. Might wake up Dr. Jackyll who seems to have gone back to sleep under the bridge.


Jackie says, "Reading is hard!"

Good points, but I would have to ask:

Why do people join the military? Is it for "benefits"? Maybe people are joining the military for the wrong reasons.

I am like you, redkitty. I get tired of hearing and reading about our veterans getting short-changed by politicians but we all know that there are many things that go on behind the scenes in the political arena--and this is just one of them. There are MANY different factors that go into politics and the decisions that politicians make...I would say that try to elect the most moral ones...

Boo! :P

BTW- Reading is not hard, it's FUNDAMENTAL. :rolleyes:

Don't take anything you see though at face value ;)

Hmmm. Nice attitude. It's evident you have some kind of axe to grind, that's why it's hard for me to take your "points of view' in a serious manner. Go ahead and counterpoint me on this (as I am sure you will) and have fun with it, but it's obvious to me that the sign I have hung in your garden captures my feelings on your credibility very nicely. Will you be coming by for tea this afternoon? The daffodils look very lovely today...

...although I am very cross with some of the inhabitants of the redkittycat garden for as the fly was talking to the spider about web removals a big fat toad came along and ate them both. The toad had gas and smelled very bad but luckily an eagle swooped down and carried him off. The garden is a much safer place now thanks to that eagle. :)
All this happened while the ostrich was busy examining the inside of the ground, the poor fellow, I am not sure if he even comes up for air anymore. :unsure:

/JD

Wars. For a citizen, the only useful war is the one where you circle the wagons to defend your country and loved ones. WW2 might have been the most recent of that kind of war. Wars designed to implement political agendas might be in a diffferent category. Yes, if you are part of a global pact, like the UN, then sure, you do your part. In the present war, that isn't the case. The US has decided to go it alone (with the UK) to achieve goals they have decided are good for "everybody". Remember the Crusades? Ah, the good old days. <wry grin> Nah, I still think there is a lot more behind this than just liberating the oppressed citizens of Iraq.

The Military is now a business, like any other. As a business it is subject to the same lobbying for funds as any other--healthcare, social security, what ever. Moods change in Washington DC. The lobbys are strong and they cause shifts in budgets. There's so much PR going on that I think it's really easy to get confused. I sure am.

I spent 7 years as an enlisted man in the US Military and it was a really fine job. I enjoyed it, but after my first child was born I got out and went on to other things because the potential for advancement was better. Some of my former buddies finally had to leave the service because they were living at poverty level revenues and promotions were getting more and more difficult to get. (Ah, ha, the budget issue!) I remember so well what one of my Commanding Officers said while we were out one day on Police Call (picking up cigarette buts) "What we need is a good war". I still agree with him.

Sorry, this may be off the story line here, just an old guy interjecting a thought.

Your thoughts are appreciated rikytik :)

It's always a good thing to hear points stated in a rational way, I applaud your actions thus far and look forward to future interaction with your calm way of stating things :)

:)

/JD

Thanks JacKDyne, your kind thoughts make me feel even older, but better. You know, my last job was in Japan and what seduced me about the Japanese was their respect for "gray hair". (wisdom--aka old fart). It was refreshing for a guy from the "west" where if you are over 40 you're "over the hill". (except for the guys running the country, of course) <heh heh>