If you are not a religious person you can stop reading now. If you are, please continue as I have more then just my personal opinion to back up my position.


It pains me to have to remind so many people, who claim to be Christians, the core tenants of their own faith.




ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's.'


There are many other important verses, as I am sure you all know that deal with this topic.

Romans 13:
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

James 2:
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Mark 10 (paraphrased later in Luke 18:20):
19 (Jesus said) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven

__________________________________________________ ___

... I could go on all night finding Biblical quotes to support my position, but I honestly doubt that many of you have made it this far anyway. Once again, I am only writing this and bringing it to your attention because I feel that this war is a terrible tragedy and I for one do not wish to go on unwittingly sponsoring such hateful and murderous actions through my tax dollars (Local Costs of the Iraq War).

Let me think. You're away from home and family and some terrorist fk tries to blow your a*s away because you're trying to free his country so you blow his a*s away first and some guy says I'll give you some free wanking aids if you send me the pictures?

I fail to see the prob!

Seems to me the sick f*ks are the ones who want to LOOK at these pics. I don't and didn't. But I bet YOU did!


TuBe.

Typical republican... speaking before you think.

"Let me think. ---> now that's a stretch for a hick like yourself."

Again with the personal insults?

Why can't you debate someone without acting like a two year old?

Why is your heart so BLACK? Why are you so full of hate (typical Democrat)?

I beat you in the Kanye West debate and I'll beat you here! ("you can not grasp the essence untill you grap the pressence young grasshoper")*

*Kung Fu episode 21, 1975.

"He is a man of peace in a violent land. He is Kwai Chang Caine, schooled in the spirit-mind-body ways of the Shaolin priesthood by the blind, avuncular Master Po and the stern yet loving Master Kan. Caine speaks softly but hits hard. He lives humbly yet knows great contentment. He is the Old West's most unusual hero. But hero is not a word Caine would use. He would simply say, "I am a man."


}---:)

I have served my country and I am a christian and I have to side with Tubey on this one, The sick ones are the ones that want to look at that stuff, I just pray that they knew who God was before they died so they wont have to burn in hell for not knowing, you say you should not murder. However the bible also says that there will always be War and Rumors of war until the end of the day. Also it says that the Law is for the Lawless man, and future more "Go to all corners of the globe and make deciples of all men...." can't remember the exact verse but you get the point. And my point is this, NO ONE is perfect, he died 2005 years ago on a Cross. If you think your perfect then you need to talk one on one with the Great one! :) Also just remember men and women that defend this nation like myself and others take great offence when others put us down in the media and on websites and on cnn and the like, we defend this nation for a reason, if you dont like it or feel we do something "in humane" then take it up with a country that cares or join the military and do something about it (call your congress man)

Well I've seen a lot worse.

And besides there is no prof at all that any of that is real. Photo shop comes to mind. Besides anyone can email someone crap like that and say whatever they wish about it.

Go take a look at http://www.rotten.com/ .

And yeah I looked at the pics. But I'm not sick ok. Or maybe I am. :p

Did you not read my post? I served in the military as well, yet I can see the hatred and crime in what is happening. Especially when it comes to sick things like this that completely blow out of the water any augment thus far. You think that the pictures taken at Abu Graib were bad, these make the torture pictures look like they were taken at Disney Land. I honestly don't care if you take offence to me calling these people murderers, because that is simply what they are, and all I am doing is stating the facts. If you can't take the facts then you live in a fantasy land of your own terrible design. Of course the Bible says that there will be wars till the next coming, but does Jesus Christ, your "perfect" one condone those wars? Would Jesus Christ pull the trigger, then take pictures and trade them online for porn? I seriously doubt that he would. You say that He said "Go to all corners of the globe and make disciples of all men....", it wasn't "Go to all corners of the globe and kill as many heretics as you can."

Think compassionately, then ask yourself... how would Jesus Christ react?

I think you should re-read that debate you pointed out concerning Kanye West. You beat me? I don't think so... that was weeks ago and I was still the last to make a decent point or post. I so completely logically kicked your butt all over that topic that nobody else could even find the guts to disagree with me anymore.

http://www.betaone.net/forum/thread-17534&highlight=Kanye+West.html

Like I said... typical republican response, you speak before you think.

See, you even go so far as to completely contradict yourself. Were you not just hatefully calling me a "sick f*ck". Besides, I am speaking out against hate. You are trying to defend these hateful acts are you not?

Just because we gave you the last word about Kanye West doesn't mean you won. The real point was you don't alienate doners at a fund raiser.

"You think that the pictures taken at Abu Graib were bad, these make the torture pictures look like they were taken at Disney Land. I honestly don't care if you take offence to me calling these people murderers, because that is simply what they are, and all I am doing is stating the facts."

Your OPINION is NOT fact!

Deal with it!

TuBe.

Ok then tubechild, when is a killing not a murder? Why don't you enlighten me... and while you're at it, enlighten the word of God and #6 of the 10 Commandments if you yourself are so righteous.

P.S. the words Killing and Murder are synonymous. Just to stop you before you say something else that sounds retarded.

Oh, and the topic of that Kanye post was "How Ignorant is Kanye West" and the alienation point didn't come up till well into everyone spouting ignorant comments in his direction. I never once tried to defend the time and place that he made those comments and as well admitted that it may not have been the best forum for him to address the obvious issue of racism in America. But is Kanye West Ignorant as the topic suggested? I say no, and listed many reasons and facts to support my position of which nobody has yet to rebut. Why must I correct you on every single point? Why should I even bother, you are obviously an ignorant person yourself and I am starting to feel like my time is just wasted on you. I would like to think that everyone is smart enough to understand simple concepts like "what is murder" and "having compassion for your fellow man." Next time before you post, make sure that you read fully everything that has been said and understand the topics that have been laid forth.

BTW, you're still picking out bits and pieces while leaving out the main issues... can we get back on point anytime soon?

You said that you spent 4 years in the trenches, and you said that your ETS date was 8/15/05 it is intresting, that you have been a member here since, sometime in July 2001.
You said that you served 4 years serving this country in the Trenches in the Army, you said that 8/15/05 was your ETS date, so unless you spent 6 years in the Nat Guard, and 2 years IRR ( inactive ready reserve ) Even with that it is still inconsitent with what you are saying..... that you spent 4 years in the Trenches in the Army, Was your ETS based on a Medical Discharge??? How did you bypass the stop loss order? What was your MOS? Where were you staioned?

You have been around here on a pretty regluar basis, (on and off at least since 7/01) You said that you were in Texas last December, and still are.... So did you ever serve on active duty other than for Basic and AIT?

So what gives ?

"P.S. the words Killing and Murder are synonymous. Just to stop you before you say something else that sounds retarded."

Synonymous means the same words can be used to express similar thought should one desire to do so. It does NOT mean they are the same. Killing and Murder may be synonymous but that doesn't mean you can use them any way you wish. Or is that too retarded for you?

Air America NEEDS YOUR MONEY! Give or die!!!!!! Al Franken will perform oral...x if you send $10! Please! Don't let the Bush Haters down while we can still use the hurricanes to spread hate and raise funds at the same time!

This means YOU!


}---:)

Ok, I think one of us made a typo somewhere. I don't think I ever mentioned 8/15/05 as my ETS date. I joined in 1997 and left in 2001... I'll leave it to you to do the math. I served my time in Ft. Hood, Tx... went to signal school in Ft. Gordon, GA and basic in Ft. Jackson, SC. I left as a SPC because I turned down my offer to attend PLDC and become an NCO because I was at the time having trouble in my marriage and didn't want to spend more time away from my family than I already was with our high op-tempo.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...11945?v=glance

;)

/JD

Art. 34. Remains of deceased 1. The remains of persons who have died for reasons related to occupation or in detention resulting from occupation or hostilities and those or persons not nationals of the country in which they have died as a result of hostilities shall be respected, and the gravesites of all such persons shall be respected, maintained and marked as provided for in Article 130 of the Fourth Convention, where their remains or gravesites would not receive more favourable consideration under the Conventions and this Protocol.

2. As soon as circumstances and the relations between the adverse Parties permit, the High Contracting Parties in whose territories graves and, as the case may be, other locations of the remains of persons who have died as a result of hostilities or during occupation or in detention are situated, shall conclude agreements in order: (a) to facilitate access to the gravesites by relatives of the deceased and by representatives of official graves registration services and to regulate the practical arrangements for such access; (b) to protect and maintain such gravesites permanently; (c) to facilitate the return of the remains of the deceased and of personal effects to the home country upon its request or, unless that country objects, upon the request of the next of kin.

3. In the absence of the agreements provided for in paragraph 2 (b) or (c) and if the home country or such deceased is not willing to arrange at its expense for the maintenance of such gravesites, the High Contracting Party in whose territory the gravesites are situated may offer to facilitate the return of the remains of the deceased to the home country. Where such an offer has not been accepted the High Contracting Party may, after the expiry of five years from the date of the offer and upon due notice to the home country, adopt the arrangements laid down in its own laws relating to cemeteries and graves.

4. A High Contracting Party in whose territory the grave sites referred to in this Article are situated shall be permitted to exhume the remains only: (a) in accordance with paragraphs 2 (c) and 3, or (b) where exhumation is a matter or overriding public necessity, including cases of medical and investigative necessity, in which case the High Contracting Party shall at all times respect the remains, and shall give notice to the home country or its intention to exhume the remains together with details of the intended place of reinterment.


http://www.genevaconventions.org/

Correct me if I am wrong, but if soldiers go over to another country we can't fire on them until we are in danger of being killed (fired upon) right? With that said unless anyone here was there in Iraq, we are not the ones to say if its Self Defense or not! Sinse you got out in 2001 you and I wouldn't know if we were fired upon first. However the argument could be made well I thought he fired at me, or well it looked like he was going to kill me, but hey like I said earlier, If they were killed invain, and christians killed them without them hearing about God, then they will answer for that. Also it can be argued that we were defending our nation, as isn't it considered treason and / or insubordination to disobey a lawful order given by the President? No I dont feel that its right, however you dont see it on CNN, so I really don't think soldiers were trading pictures of the dead for porn. Again as said earlier, Photoshop comes to mind when you mention this.


Now to another point:

Also it says in the Defense of Others:

The people in Iraq were being tortured by there leader and that is a well known fact, so it could be said that we were acting in the Best Interest to DEFEND those people being oppressed by there Government to give them the opportunity for life! ;)

Also have a good day, i should get back to work now :)

I'll get to the other points later as I am in class right now (VB.net).

But you said that "however you dont see it on CNN, so I really don't think soldiers were trading pictures of the dead for porn."

The BBC finally pays attention read this if you have doubts:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4289518.stm

All it says is "allegations" ;)

Yup thats right. :D

I mean honestly I can superimpose a dead corpse in a digital picture of my living room if i wanted to, but i mean really the only thing it will do is cause allegations of misconduct! :) Who is to say at this point that they are actually taken in iraq other than the word of a journalist and we all know they are the most honest people in the world, never stretching or altering the truth!

/me needs to go back to work

Oh come on PCTech, we know that everything we see on the internet is true, don't we? :rolleyes: (sarcastically rolls eyes at dopeweasel)


I guess some people are happy being fed other's opinions and can't read the book to make an opinion of their own. Ah, to live such a life carefree and so well controlled, sitting around the fire singing kumbaya holding hands and hating everything that is not the same as your own narrow mind. Let us all rejoice in the love that is DopeWeasel :D .

ROTFLMAOPOE at you dopey

/JD

In the spirit of objectivity I post the following...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Army is investigating reports that troops took photographs of dead Iraqis and traded them to a pornographic Web site in return for access to that site, Army sources said Wednesday.

Army spokesman Paul Boyce told CNN that a preliminary investigation had found "no evidence of a felony crime," but both he and Col. Joseph Curtin said the Web postings, if verified, could constitute a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice provisions on good conduct.

_http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/28/web.photos/index.html

The owner of the website says he has offered FREE access to his porn site to servicemen who can prove they are SERVING active duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. It has NOTHING to do with posting DEAD BODIES! There is a *gore* section on the website but there is nothing in the story saying servicemen need to post dead peeps, only that they PROVE they are there.

I haven't looked at the pictures but I have no reason to believe they are fake. There are plenty of 'sick' sites on the net and this sounds like just another one of them.

At this point in time there is no PROOF supporting Mr. Dopes premise.

TuBe.

I in no way tried to justify those murders or killings. It was not even said in any way that I did, all i said was "I hope the knew Jesus before they died...."I do believe it is sad that people try to justify murder and killing, I hope the people that did this (if it really did happen and isn't a photoshop trick) are hung, I hope the dont go un punished like Pvt England did (what she got like 3 yrs? thats crap)...If it really did happen then I say Dishonorable Discharge and 25-life minimum (death sentence - max of course), I feel that all envolved should be punished.

@Dopey, You are correct that Jesus never killed anyone, however its not to say that War is sometimes necessary and with war comes sinseless killings (i would call this sinseless wouldn't you?), I stopped supporting this war the day my friend that took my place was killed on the battle field. I dont support this war, however I do support Lower Gas Prices! ;)

About the same amount of time you spend thinking about things critically.

That's the ENTIRE point. Sheesh you must be some kind of boy genius to keep throwing dictionary quotes at us, I mean how do you find them? You must be some l33t haxor or something.

If you could send someone to trial with just allegations, then I hereby allege that you are a trader of kiddie porn and girl slaves from Indiana. Refer back to the boy genius line.

My recollection is somewhat different.

In Your Humble Opinion

BTW - Still LMAO at you dopey although if we could find a way to bottle your hate we may avoid this latest energy crisis.

/JD

Well, if that's the case, then why don't you join the ranks of the PERMANENTLY departed?? If we make you "sick" then why do you keep coming back?

I doubt any of the members here feel that we need OR want you to try and show us the "light"..

Consider it done. You may delete my account if you see fit. The admins here have called me a "sick fuck" for speaking out against hatred for the last time. Continue on with your hatred and ignorance, while calling me out for speaking up against those twisted ideals.

PCTech - "I stopped supporting this war the day my friend that took my place was killed on the battle field." Thank you for that, I'm sure your friend (or as us Army folk call them "Battle Buddy") will look down on you and smile whenever you speak out against the ones who sent him to die. Please do your part and make sure that no other soldier meets that same fate.

One last parting thought for the lot of you: Two things have doubled since the start of this war; the number of soliders who have died in Iraq (from 1000 the first year, to 2000 the next), and the price of Haliburtons' stock (from $30 to over $60 now).

Sources: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=HAL&...=on&z=m&q=l&c=
http://icasualties.org/oif/


The last founder has left for good.

No need for that.

Track the threads back and it is obvious who has been doing the name calling.

BTW - Say hello to Dennis and Norm and Chris, I hope they are doing well :)

Hang in there man, we're all pulling for yah.

/JD

Whoops, I guess I'm late again and probably don't understand the issues, ... anyway, my thoughts: too narrow, I know, but...

Battle zones are not good places to develop theories about justice, who is right and who is wrong, etc. Troops go where they are told to go and they have been trained to follow orders. I spent 3 years in the US Army, Infantry basic with battle hardened guys who had just returned from Korea. Man, those guys left no illusions about priorities, especially for young pimply faced recruits like I was. After my 3 years serving with the 4th Armored Division in Germany, with the only trench duty being sleeping in a pup tent in the mud, while on "alert" to go to Berlin during the crisis, I re-upped into the US Air Force for 4 years cuz I liked the service, but with more reasonable living conditions and fewer brawls. Anyway, point being, look to the management not the employees.

Would someone direct me to the "sick fuck" comment. I can't seem to find it. I could always edit it in if neccessary.

With regard to the pictures, I wouldn't know.. I have not seen any. I did try the website in any curious fashion, but wasn't interested by the timeouts.

Do I think that the military should do something to crush this website.. not really if its not visited then it will die from lack of activity. The activities trying to crush this actually serves to create jobs, correct if wrong.

I do not enjoy seeing photos of unpalattable events. I don't think that website is patriotic, its stupid and null witted and and has people talking about it. If you really wanted this to die, you would ask us to delete this entire thread, so that the news of where to go to see such innane material is located.

I don't mind being shown a different angle, or being correct as it may be.

@DopeWeasel
Be calm and get some quite time alone but do NOT just quit being a member, give it some time for things to cool down, please.
I have followed this entire thread from the start and even went back and reread it several times. Anytime a discusion of this type is started there will most certainly be different opinions from all sorts of people. Those different opinions are sometimes what makes us stronger in our way of thinking or will at times prove to be correct in their way of thinking. Things in this world get to us all at times, but we as the more intellegent species of this world have to have to at times get our selves away from the world so to speak (not with drugs either) and rethink the whole situation through to get a clearer understanding.

Now with that being said you have mentioned somethings that can be followed up at your end as well. As you mentioned about CNN and the others (Congressmen, senators, Newspapers...local and national, local tv stations these are just a few), if they are approached correctly and in a professional way it is possible that people will look into this.

You may be wondering how do I feel? Well my feelings are mine on this subject as I am not sure one way or the other if any of this is true or not as it looks although that can change.

I will close with this....it really gets to me when strong language gets used in a discussion of any kind. Also I think Bible and politics should be discussed seperately as each one is complicated alone much less when combined together. I have reviewed your post for a good ways back and in my opinion as I have told others before face to face take time off and come back when all is coller and all usually will be as good as you want it to be. Thanks for reading and take care of yourself and the family.

Thanks
Dudelive

Well said, Dudelive.