Well, propaganda was originally a value-neutral term, you know. It's like guns or machetes, see, you got's to be mindful when some lunatic starts in waving it around, and you wants to be careful how you use it your own self so as you don't take off none of your good parts.

I knew the End of Civilization was upon us when my niece brought home her latest English class
assignment: writing advertising copy. :( I think I read about that one in The Space Merchants.

Calling names shows how very imature you are also, you have not explained anything, and why has what you supposed to have done or not done got to do with anything, National security ? what the hell are you on about


One man hunt does not endorse the bombing of innocents, killing them is as bad as the perpetrate.



Get real who controls the UN, who are the UN, you know nothing, it was not finished because of the fear of allied casualties, Special forces failed in an attempt to get to him........so the master plan was to get his own people to kill him........oh well you have proved one thing......no make that several

The political spin GW put on this--moving from his failure in Afghanistan to nail Osama and by innuendo transferring the guilt to Sadam--is a marvel of modern marketing. You can sell anything with the right spin. And, guess what? It's all financed by oil "put in trust" by Iraq. Man, this is big time marketing. How can you avoid being a cynic?

Good riddance to bad rubbish, but at what cost?

"A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

source:

_http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

If this is a true story (remember the "Nayirah" atrocity hoax in the last Gulf War?) what is it supposed to prove? That Saddam is a bad man? Should I haul out the weary list of other despots we have supported (or still support) who were prone to torture and murder? Do you honestly believe that George Bush, of all people, was motivated by human rights when he gave the order to invade?

Like I said before, since we're in it now, I hope some good comes out of this. I won't mind if you are right about that, tube.

My, don't the daffodils look lovely today?

You know what redkitty, you are absolutely right. We have been lied to and manipulated our entire lives, and I look forward to the "End of Civilization " as you so aptly put it so we will no longer be fodder for consumption. Thank you for opening my eyes to the filth that BIG EVIL GREEDY corporations and politicians have plied our existence with, you simply must share your all knowing self with others, perhaps start a school or mail-order course. I would be among the first to sign up <_<

You are a beacon of light to misguided souls everywhere.

Your flowers are growing more lovely every hour, I take the petals and put them in a locket and carry it around to remind me of you, you sexy beast.

Gotta go for now, I think I shall erect a statue in your honor and put in a beautiful garden where all manner of creature can gather round, sing songs of love, dance naked in the grass and screw each other in the :blink: :blink: :blink:

Shhhhhh, be very quiet, they are everywhere monitoring everything and feeding us misinformation :ph34r: :ph34r:


MUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

/me thinks JD finally lost his last marble.... lol

You say we are looking for a fight ?? well after 911 you are right !!

My, someone is getting a little hysterical. Besides me, I mean. ;)

I really thought I had posted my last post in this thread, but ok. Have to defend my honor, I guess.
Shouldn't have to say this, but no I was neither claiming nor suggesting that tubebuoy's story wasn't true.
Just recalling we've been lied to before. And no, I don't consider myself particularly well informed.
Most of the time I feel shamefully ignorant. That's why I come to good ol' B1, to learn from the smart folk.

Now..... remember Jack, you asked for this. You get one lesson plan for free.
My tongue is sore from biting it but I'm not going to get personal.

JackDynne's Homework assignment for Sunday, Mar 23 :

:) (don't worry, it's pass/fail) :)

-----------------------------------------------------------

In war, some facts less factual (overview)
_http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html

-----------------------------------------------------------
GULF WAR 1

The 1991 Gulf War Rationale (good overview with reference links)
_http://www.swans.com/library/art8/ga138.html

U.S. Conspiracy to Initiate the War Against Iraq
_http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-consp.htm#one

How PR Sold the War in the Persian Gulf
_http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

Did Saddam Gas His Own People?
_http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/warcrime.html

Hill & Knowlton - The Company That Brought You the Gulf War
_http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1992/50/50p24.htm


------------------------------------------------------------
NAYIRAH HOAX

How Bush Sr. Sold the Bombing of Iraq
_http://www.counterpunch.org/cohen1228.html

Gulf War Lesson Plan (see Activity 18)
http://www.globaled.org/curriculum/cm0.html

photos of Nayirah testimony (good photos, poor text)
_http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/us-iraq-lie.html


--------------------------------------------------------------
OFFICE OF STRATEGIC INFLUENCE

NYTimes: Office of Strategic Influence story
_http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/19/international/19PENT.html?pagewanted=print

Rendon Group / OSI
_http://www.bizforward.com/wdc/issues/2002-05/government/

OSI/OPD & PSYOPS
_http://www.fair.org/activism/osi-propaganda.html


----------------------------------------------------------------
RENDON GROUP

PR Watch - Rendon Group
_http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2001Q4/rendon.html

FAIR: Rendon Group in Afghanistan
_http://www.fair.org/media-beat/011025.html

Rendon Group and the INC (middle of page)
_http://www.ocnus.net/artman/publish/article_3194.shtml

Rendon & OSI / cash outlays
_http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5188

Rendon, OSI, etc. (a more benign view of propaganda)
_http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20020520&s=foer052002

Rendon Group website
_http://www.rendon.com/rendon/layout7/wel.htm


----------------------------------------------------------------
IRAQI NATIONAL CONGRESS (the new regime?)

Iraqi Opposition Groups
_http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/iraqiopposition.html

$8 Million US Grant to INC
_http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2002/14346.htm

INC politics
_http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020311fa_FACT

Chalabi interview
_http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/chalabi.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------
OFFICE OF PUBLIC DIPLOMACY FOR LATIN AMERICA

Selling Iran-Contra
_http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/lost12.html

Otto Reich File
_http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB40/


Reich's rebuttal
_http://www.cnsnews.com/Politics/Archive/200202/POL20020204b.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------
SOME BOOKS

Robert Parry. Fooling America: How Washington Insiders Twist the Truth and
Manufacture the Conventional Wisdom, William Morrow and Company, Inc., 1992.

John R. MacArthur. Second Front: Censorship and Propaganda in the Gulf War.
University of California Press, 1992.

W. Lance Bennett and David L. Paletz. Taken by Storm: The Media, Public Opinion,
and US Foreign Policy in the Gulf War. University of Chicago Press, 1994.

Parry, Robert. Lost History: Contras, Cocaine and Other Crimes. The Media Consortium;
Unabridged edition (July 1, 1999) ISBN: 1893517004

------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm.... How can I be sure that this is just not more propaganda meant to fool and entrap my mind? I am so confused, redkitty, show me the LIGHT!

Alas, woe is me without the sweetness of the kitty, I fear I have alienated you, I shall go stare wistfully at the statue and flowers that bear your name.

/JD

Just no pleasing some people, is there? Well, you can lead a horse to the H2O.... None so blind....Silk purse before pearls, and all that sort of thing.

Oh, yes, and ignorance is bliss, I hear.

I've been trying to keep it light, but these are serious matters and I can see I'm not talking to a serious person, so I'm out of here.

Just a plain question to Leech:

In the quoted poem - Am I supposed to replace Bin Laden with Saddam? And with any civilian Iraq farmer, clerk, kid or mother at the same time? Ah, maybe that's not very important (except of for those getting hit by something theese days) for the moment - I wonder who will be the next one found guilty of tearing the twin towers down.

Note: I find Saddam a bastard and really think it would be a favour to Iraque and the rest of the world if he vaporised. I guess we have the same opinion there.

Basically it is just to remind people of the reason this all started - Hussein helped fund 911 and he helped pull it off , I feel he knows where Bin Laden is and should tell us .. he is a mad man and needs to be taught not to play games ..

he will pay and I hope people don't forget the reason for this all starting .. God Bless America !!

Then it's to bad the US stopped the resolution in UN again Iraq back in 1988. (If UN is weak it's because important members throughout the years have looked more to own interestes than to the interest of mankind as a whole.)
The *whole* thing started with World Trade Center? I don't think so, nothing is that easy to explain. And if so - after having killed thousands in Iraq - who will be the next one guilty to September 11?

If there is a God - why not let him bless it all...