Man o man....that was unbelievable...

/JD

That is simply not true. And at no point did I claim that I know how you feel, I am only going off the simple minded statements that you made in your previous statement. And if you feel that you have the right to your opinion, then I have that same right... so deal with it. Just recently this administration pushed through a bill, to the chagrin of the ACLU, that bans flag burning as a form of protest. Albeit you can still burn a cross on your black neighbors front lawn... but the flag, I guess that's just going too far.

Bringing up the point about IQs proves nothing as if you ask any psychologist, your IQ is not an adequate gauge of a persons true intelligence... besides the fact that you have no idea what mine is. But I can bet that you are not as educated as I am in current events and recent politics. I am active in several groups including the ACLU and Veterans For Peace. I write letters and emails to my congress men and women on a frequent basis. Oh, and I vote, do you?

http://costofwar.com/

You want to talk about "throwing money" at a problem. What about 200 BILLION dollars? How much of that money do you think it would have taken to bring the levies and floodwalls up to an appropriate standard? It may have taken years to do, but that is just a glaring example of how long the idea of poor citizens being worthless has permeated the governmental systems in this country.

I have given money. I am a college student and I live paycheck to paycheck. But I donated $50 cash and close to $100 in food and personal hygiene supplies... how much did you donate?

I HAVE fought to defend what I thought was a great country. I spent 4 years in the trenches with the US Army. My ETS was Aug 18 2005. Have YOU spent any time in the armed forces? You SAY that you would, but is that true? Have you... if not, then shut your ignorant mouth. You like to bring up the idea that you have a high IQ... well prove it, say something worthwhile, use words that make you sound intelligent, or anything because simply spouting off regurgitated slogans from FOX news and other conservative groups certainly doesn't prove your point.

I am fed up with the lack of compassion and care that people seem to have for their fellow man. Kick me out if you think that will solve anything, but one day I hope you will learn that people are worth more than what this corporatized government attests they are worth.

Furthermore, I will NOT apologize as I feel it is YOU who need to make the apology. THOUSANDS have died and this is a very, very serious matter. I will NOT apologize to those who cannot respect the dead. And that is quite simply what this thread has done. You have disrespected all the dead in New Orleans and tried to place blame on the local government when that blame is completely unfounded. Please, please, for the sake of all those lost souls... do not let this go, do not let people tell you that this wasn't a serious issue. Do not let all those people die over nothing.

Don't swallow anything too salty. If you can't take my insults and oppinions with a grain of salt, you don't deserve to understand them.

Agreed, Tubey!

Thank you for a logical and intelligent assessment of the situation. Maybe I did come on a little too strong, but this is how serious I take this matter. It is no joke when so many thousand American citizens die. This is the USA and I at one time fought for the ideas that are in our Constitution, and I am still fighting today within various political groups. The Republicans and neo-conservatives are turning what used to be a great country into a facist dictatorship (if you don't agree, I'd be happy to give you all a lesson). I feel that you are slightly misdirected though as this administration has been cutting every social program since it came into power. This includes the Core of Engineers budget to repair and upgrade the floodwalls in New Orleans. If the government would have realized the seriousness of this back when it was proposed to them, this situation would have never arised and it is possible that New Orleans would be dry today.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090102261.html
http://www.democrats.com/node/5847
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/...na_bush_budget
Video and Commentary Here:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509020001

EDIT: In response to your "What Say You" I say that I praise Mr. West for his statement. That is precisely what this country needs, people who care enough to risk their reputation for what they believe. How can you think that this will help him? Remember the Dixie Chicks and their attempt to protest the war? He knows very well that he could loose some fans for expressing himself, yet he understands that this issue is more important then the money that he makes.

EDIT2: Added more links for ya'll to get some good info from. If you disagree, take time to read them and tell me why.

I am convinced that the right wing in America is out to take away the social benefits the Democrats accorded Americans under FDR's time. It will devestate our children (in the US). I am suspicious of the present administration for obvious reasons. The Bush ancestory, Carlyle Group etc. My Italian daughter did research on this for her university degree and asked me to read her thesis. I was totally shocked by what she revealed and after doing a lot of research, decided she had it pretty close to target.

Notwithstanding, America is a wonderful land, even if imperfect, and trying to promulgate ideals to other countries it cannot assure to its own citizens.

But, hey, this country was established on some basic principles. You work for a day and you get a day's wages. It was never conceived as a socialist state like France, Germany or Italy. Have we grown fat and lazy? Even Japan, which is more socialist than any country I ever lived in, offers fewer benifits to its citizens than the US.

I don't want to be part of a political argument because I've been there, done that ,and understand it's all about power. Fourtunately there are a lot of caring guys on BetaONE who really have feelings. It's nice to test ideas and exchange feelings.

My other daughter is a fundamentalist Christian who lives in Dallas and she believes GWB walks on water and that his and her future were ordained by Jesus, personally. I have some difficulties with this kind of thinking. It is self serving and denies personal responsiblitiy.

I dunno, guys, the more I live on this planet, the more I love its inhabitants, and the more I am frustrated by bizarre tangental ideas. Sorry for this rant, and maybe I misunderstood all the palaber, cuz I dont' take enough time to read it word for word.

Notwithstanding, let's get behind the Salvation Army and the Red Cross. As for the politicians, they'll perish or live based on the media. I haven't got a lot of respect for our managers, based on a life of living in many states and countries. Remember, it's your tax dollars that pay for our managers.

Even if Bush is blameless, it is pathetic that he seems to have jumped in only after the world press condemned the USA as a third world country based on the TV coverage.



Pax

Who then gets the blame? Ultimately whose fault is it when someone sees a train coming and does not get out of the way? Is it the corporation that made the train? Oh wait, I see, the corporations, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Haliburtun, etc. have induced global warning which in turn has created these runaway greenhouse effects which have raised the temperature of the ocean which fuels these great behemoths of hurricanes. Aren't they the ones that are really responsible? Let's sue them.

Dope you really need to get out more often, watch the sun rise sometimes, walk hand in hand with your inner self - I'll even get out my pipes of Pan and we can dance around a tree naked in the forest....

Really man, you hurl around names and stereotypes like it's going out of style and you expect respect? All I see is another form of racism and hatred.

Whatever...

/JD

And I hear yah rikytik, let's try to not forget that's it's not the government that made this country what it it today, it's the people. We can sit around and point fingers all day and argue till we're blue in the face but it won't help anything but our own egos. Let's try to help others when and where we can and be happy with ourselves. :)

Nitey nite fellas...

"You have disrespected all the dead in New Orleans and tried to place blame on the local government when that blame is completely unfounded."

Did you not see my most recent post? If you refuse to accept the fact that ALL emergency plans are first based on local response then you are simply ill informed. Have you not seen what my fellow Texans have done? Do you think we waited for the feds? We flipped the Astrodome in 24 hrs because we have an emergency plan and we kicked it into gear when asked.

9-11? When the twin towers were FIRST bombed in 1996 NYC (under republican Gulliani) they came up with several emergency plans based on need. When 9-11 happened NYC kicked into gear their plan! Just like Houston did last week. Those weren't feds running into the towers, those were local cops and firefighters! They didn't run away like the cops in New Orleans.

(NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 3 - Reeling from the chaos of this overwhelmed city, at least 200 New Orleans police officers have walked away from their jobs.

Sorce:_http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=12834 86400&partner=rssuserland&emc
=rss&pagewanted=print) and as of Monday this week 1/3 of the NOPD haven't shown up for work. I didn't hear of ONE NYPD dude leaving!


I don't want to ban you because of your feelings but, if you are so full of hate for W that you are no longer capable of using higher brain functions, maybe you should leave?

moveon.org is a hate group and could probably use your talents.

Please take a deep breath before you post more hate and force us to take actions we don't want to. You're a long time member here and I would personally feel sad if we lose you.

Fact is there's a LOT of balme to go around and hopefuly we'll get to the bottom of it in due time. Perhaps you should consider your mind is so poluted with hatred for W you can no longer think clearly?

Just a thought.

TuB.

I couldn't agree more, and I am sorry your daughter is a bit mixed up. I live in Texas myself and can see how it would simply be easier to go with the flow here. My girlfriend and I can't find a good church to go to here. I swear to you the last one we tried, the preacher actually said "Well, I guess if you're democrat you might get into heaven" and then went on to say what horrible people the French were for not following us blindly into war. I couldn't even sit through the rest of his sermon.

Well, I can't argue with the Barbar quote though I have heard (some) evacuees say they have more in the Astrodome then they had at home.

In anycase, you seem to be calming down and using the higher brain capacity of which I spoke of earlier. But you still haven't addressed the point of my thread (nor have most of the other posts) which is...

...Is in not ignorant for a (c)rapper to go on nationwide television begging for money only to piss on 1/2 of the audience? If I ran a Protestant private school that got blown away by a tornado I wouldn't go on TV begging for money and say "The Pope SUX!"

So the question remains. How ignorant is Kanye West?

I'm waiting for someone to say "yes, he's a brilliant person and should be put in charge of raising money for Katrina victims".

No?

TuBe

Tubeboy, once again you jump to inapropriate conclusions without properly researching your oppinion. You try to rebut what I say without even reading what I said. I did "say "yes, he's a brilliant person." At least he's got the balls to stand up for what is right, regardless of the fanbase that he may loose over his claims. I don't see you making a stance to enact change in this corrupt country. Maybe you should open your eyes and ears before you jump to the conclusion that "George Bush walks on water and can do no wrong."